Hunnic Empire[]
Is there a source for it? It surely looks like a real-world bleed. Is it? Combat Magicks does use the adjective "Hunnic" but only for forces and noblemen, never using "Hunnic Empire". Amorkuz ☎ 00:25, November 24, 2018 (UTC)
- That phrase was used in the initial edit, back in 2010 before the idea of T:NO RW was codified. It was sourced to Vampires of Venice, but it was never stated in that story. Someone added the Combant Magicks portion, but there's no guarantee that it actually is in that story. I'd say get rid of it for now, and it can be re-added if/when there is a valid source. Shambala108 ☎ 00:34, November 24, 2018 (UTC)
- Hunnic Empire is not named thusly in Combat Magicks. However, an empire ruled by Attila is mentioned, "Attila is the warlord of a massive tribal empire that came out of what would be modern-day Kazakhstan". In the same paragraph, it continues: "Under him, his people - the Huns - conquered and assimilated everyone in their path." In other words, "Hunnic Empire" can, in principle, be inferred as a descriptive term from the text but is never used as such. Amorkuz ☎ 01:03, November 24, 2018 (UTC)
Category[]
Tardis:Beware recursion#Don't reverse the order of categories. Find another solution but you can't put Category:People from the real world encountered by the Doctor when you already have the more specific Category:People from the real world encountered by the Thirteenth Doctor. The more broad category is already included in the more specific one. Shambala108 ☎ 03:19, December 24, 2018 (UTC)
- Does T:RECURSION really apply here at all? That rule is about how to put categories inside categories; by my reading, it says nothing about putting pages inside multiple categories. I agree on principal that redundant categories should be avoided, but SOTO's reasoning here seems pretty logical, and it's not like it poses any serious problem: Category:Planets from the real world is more specific (and included in) Category:Planets, but Earth is in both of those, and that hasn't broken anything!
- Don't really want to get involved with this, it's just not every day that you see an edit war between admins on a wiki as professionally run as this one :D – N8 ☎ 03:47, December 24, 2018 (UTC)
- Indeed, if there's any objection to be had, it's T:OVER-CAT, not T:RECURSION. In any case, as it stands this is standard practice. I don't know if I can make it any clearer than the example I used in my edit summary: Terrance Dicks is a novelisation writer, but he's also a novelist -- because he's written novels which are not also novelisations.
- That section of T:RECURSION concerns the structure of the category tree, and technical concerns about preventing actual recursion. In this case, the more general category applies, in an exclusive sense to the specific incarnation category. Alan Turing met the Eighth Doctor specifically, and also either the First or Second, so both apply. We all know the Doctor met Vincent van Gogh in his eleventh incarnation, but he had also done so by the time of his sixth. Krakatoa was visited by the Ninth and Tenth Doctors, but also by one of the first three Doctors, too.
- Now it would be redundant if we added "visited by the Doctor" to Rosa Parks. She was encountered by the Thirteenth Doctor specifically, and they'd never met before. It's redundant because her encounter with "the Doctor" is the very same thing as her encounter with "the Thirteenth Doctor"; one encompasses the other entirely. Not so for Attila the Hun, Sun Tzu, Sigmund Freud, Benjamin Franklin, Cleopatra, indeed the Berlin Wall... or Terrance Dicks.
× SOTO (☎/✍/↯) 03:55, December 24, 2018 (UTC)
- Now it would be redundant if we added "visited by the Doctor" to Rosa Parks. She was encountered by the Thirteenth Doctor specifically, and they'd never met before. It's redundant because her encounter with "the Doctor" is the very same thing as her encounter with "the Thirteenth Doctor"; one encompasses the other entirely. Not so for Attila the Hun, Sun Tzu, Sigmund Freud, Benjamin Franklin, Cleopatra, indeed the Berlin Wall... or Terrance Dicks.
- While I am not a bot user and defer to CzechOut and SOTO on the exact functioning of bots, from the general computer science perspective and from the explanations and examples in Tardis:Beware recursion, it seems that the rules are not universal but rather depend on the scale of potential duplication. While a cycle in the category tree can never be allowed: it will simply cause any bot to loop indefinitely. (In fact, the definition of a "tree" in computer science is a graph that has no cycles.) As for categories with page overlap, the above mentioned policy offers a nuanced approach. It requests that we shoud not "mix two categories that have a lot of the same members", with an example of Category:The Doctor that should not be put into Category:Time Lords. At the same time, the same rule posits that it is okay to have Category:Romana within Category:Time Lords specifically because the overlap is not that significant. In other words, the number of pages visited twice by a bot should not be big enough to cause any trouble. Applying this fine print to the current case, the overhead for the bot seems to be only one page, which surely has no detectable effect on its running time. Once again, let CzechOut or SOTO correct me if I am wrong. Amorkuz ☎ 14:11, December 24, 2018 (UTC)