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The NarratorEdit

I hear he is referred to as "Rassilon", but couldn't this be metaphorical. Could someone show me the exact line of dialogue?--138.130.100.123 05:45, January 2, 2010 (UTC)

"Back to the Time War, Rassilon!" Could be a nickname or metaphor. I hope it's a nickname and they didn't just condense the return of Rassilon into a single line that didn't impact the plot in the least...--Golden Monkey 06:05, January 2, 2010 (UTC)
It impacts the plot because it shows just how amoral and ruthless Rassilon is or has become. If its simply another Time Lord President, it means little. If its Rassilon himself, it means so much more. Without Davies stating explicitly otherwise, then its safe to assume this is Rassilon himself. -- Corvus1970
I read that someone (Russel T. Davis I think) confirms that he is Rassilon.--WarGrowlmon18 17:44, January 2, 2010 (UTC)

Should the picture of Dalton be up here so soon after the airing of the episode? I kind of predicted who Rasillon would be, but I would hate to see anyone boning up on Doctor history in preparation for watching have that little surprise blown. --The Moist Towelette of Rassilon

I think this is Rassilon, he to have the Hand of Omega, and Rassilon was a friend of Omega. Also, i think Russel T Davies confirmed this

The Doctor wouldn't have called him Rassilon, especially with such disdain, unless that's who he actually was. There is no need to assume this ISN'T The Rassilon of old, to assume otherwise is to add uneeded complexity to the name-drop, especially since that isn't the way Davies handles things. The "Pope" argument isn't a good one, since "Pope" is a title, but the Popes then retain their own name associated with it as well. "Lord President" is a title, "Rassilon" is a name. As such, I - as so many others - believe that this IS Rassilon himself. -- Corvus1970

Rassilon is held in such high esteem among Time Lords. His seal is seen all over it's sociaty. The name drop WAS a metaphor, but he was talking to the whole planet, not just to the President. Making the assumption that it was Rassilon himself adds unneeded complexity. It really is simpler to assume it isn't. Also, there's no reason to assume the gauntlet is the hand of Omega.


It is an assumption even that "Rassilon" is the name the Lord President would have used for himself; it is only what the Doctor calls him. It is possible, though unlikely, that the Doctor is using the name as an insult, the same way a human under similar circumstances might have called him "Hitler". (Especially if one considers the Big Finish Eighth Doctor's experiences with Rassilon) -- DorianX

Take into consideration that remark he makes early on in Part Two; "A drumbeat... a warrior's mark." If we take PROSE: Cat's Cradle: Time's Crucible into consideration, then Rassilon was quite a soldier. The events of AUDIO: Zagreus and the Fourth Doctor's narration on Rassilon's war against the Great Vampires in TV: State of Decay indicates his ability as a general, if not a general.

I think that phrase is a strong indication that the Narrator is indeed the original Rassilon, creator of the Time Lords. --Reikson 16:09, March 19, 2010 (UTC)

I believe it is Rassilon (I am a sucker for continuity so I'll keep believing that) I mean the Autons were never called Autons in the new series (Except for the credits in "Rose") This is the same thing... YET the "Lord President" stated shortly before he made the link with the Master that he refuses to die. Isn't Rassilon immortal? Moogleknight24 talk to me 11:09, March 28, 2012 (UTC)Moogleknight24

Apart from The Doctor, no one else called the character Timothy Dalton played "Rassilon", for all we know a Time Lord calling a power hungry Time Lord "Rassilon" could be how people calling anti-Semite people "Adolf".


Not to mention if we list the character Timothy Dalton played, why aren't we listing the character Christopher Eccleston played from Rose-Parting of Ways as Tenth Doctor, the character David Tennant played from Parting of Ways-Journey's End as the Eleventh Doctor, the character David Tennant played from Journey's end-End of Time Part 2 as the Twlelth Doctor, the character Matt Smith played from-End of Time Part 2 to The Time of the Doctor as the Thirteenth Doctor. All of which, unlike the character played by Timothy Dalton being Rassilon, had been confirmed canonically.--1.121.159.63talk to me 13:49, January 29, 2014 (UTC)

To answer the question in your second point, please see Thread:145487. Shambala108 15:37, January 29, 2014 (UTC)

Timothy Dalton is not credited as Rassilon in the credits, so the official source, the BBC does not state he is Rassilon. Until it is actually stated that was Rassilon could we please just say it's fan speculaion, because look at all this debate, it's just fans speculating.--AKR619 08:03, November 3, 2015 (UTC)

"Back to the Time War, Rassilon!" - He ist Rassilon. --Scott Eccles 08:31, November 3, 2015 (UTC)

So if I call you Kim Kardashian does that make you Kim Kardashian.--AKR619 08:47, November 3, 2015 (UTC)

Why should you do that? I'm not that important person ... --Scott Eccles 09:10, November 3, 2015 (UTC)

Well say if you were doing stuff that reminded me of Kim Kardashian, so I called you that, would that in anyway make you Kim Kardashian.--AKR619 09:48, November 3, 2015 (UTC)

Very theoretical. Should the doctor and the master so wrong? I think they would recognize him and speak to him like that. --Scott Eccles 10:14, November 3, 2015 (UTC)

He was only called Rassilon once, no other time, and it sounded more like an insult than calling him his name--AKR619 10:56, November 3, 2015 (UTC).

To put this to rest, PROSE: Engines of War confirms that this is Rassilon and he is referred to multiple times as such. --Revan\Talk 12:45, November 3, 2015 (UTC)

Even without Revan's confirming evidence, calling him "Rassilon" once is enough for the purposes of this wiki, and to say it sounds like an insult is interpretation, not fact. Shambala108 15:24, November 3, 2015 (UTC)

Main Image Edit

Would it be possible to change the image on this page? I'm not asking for a major redesign like we did for the Master and are doing for the Doctor, but I don't like the layout of the main image here. Would it be possible to make each image slightly bigger, and have two rows of two instead of having all four images in one row?Icecreamdif 02:33, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

I've changed the image to one of my taste. Hope you like it! BroadcastCorp (talk | contribs) 09:44, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, thats much better. Thanks.Icecreamdif 20:37, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

No it's not. Like I told you Broadcast, copying existing designs makes your image boring and devalues the existing ones. Those were the exact words I used on your talk page, yet still you keep making them. Can't you come up with your own design?--Skittles the hog - talk 20:43, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

My own design... That is a bit of a good idea. But keep that image in the meantime. BroadcastCorp (talk | contribs) 09:20, September 2, 2011 (UTC)

Nope. For the same reasons I have mentioned a thousand times, we can't keep turfing out identical images. On another note, when you reverted my edit, you reintroduced duplicated images. Please ensure you don't do this.--Skittles the hog - talk 09:31, September 2, 2011 (UTC)

I'm taking the image down until we settle this. Your image is quite low-quality. BroadcastCorp (talk | contribs) 10:20, September 2, 2011 (UTC)

No were not. The matter is settled, we aren't using the same design again. The image can stay until a better one of the same or a similar design comes along.--Skittles the hog - talk 10:34, September 2, 2011 (UTC)

A Time Lord Edit

Rassilon was most definitely born as a Gallifreyan, not as a Time Lord. He formed the Time Lord society. Should we go by his species of birth, or what he turned out to be? Puchplimmirdeyslithin 14:02, June 8, 2013 (UTC)

In the article body we need to say both, and I think it does say that he founded Time Lord society.
For his infobox we should put Gallifreyan because that is what he was originally, for the same reason we put Human in the species field for cyber-conveted Humans. --Tangerineduel / talk 14:32, June 8, 2013 (UTC)

Another Rassilon? Edit

Where does it say that the Rassilon from The End of Time (TV story) is the same Rassilon from the ancient past? We all know Rassilon died ages ago, and we've never seen him be resurrected in any media. Maybe Timothy Dalton's character was named after Rassilon, and not Rassilon himself. Kahler Bill 18:03, November 7, 2013 (UTC)

Actually, we've seen him resurrected in Big Finish audios - he's just trapped in the Divergent Universe as of The Next Life. JagoAndLitefoot 05:48, October 25, 2014 (UTC)
Moreover he appears in the novel Engines of War and handled like the original one, so... --HarveyWallbanger 09:06, October 25, 2014 (UTC)

I agree. Dalton's Rassilon should have his own page, until we get official confirmation, from the show's writers, that he is indeed the real Rassilon (and not just another Time Lord, named after him). I suggest moving him to a seperate page. Does anyone agree?--Coq87rouge 16:53, December 26, 2013 (UTC)

Nah. We got in-universe comics now that depict both Rassilons as the same, plus we've had this discussion before. 03:37, October 28, 2015 (UTC)

Infobox image Edit

Should Rassilon's infobox image be a template with dissolving images, like {{docpic}}, {{borusapic}} and {{masterpic}}? It'd look something like this: User:SmallerOnTheOutside/Sandbox/Sandbox7 ([1] if you're reading this after the page has been repurposed).
--SOTO 01:02, January 13, 2014 (UTC)


Resurrection gauntlet Edit

Wears Rassilon in The End of Time one of the Resurrection gauntlets?--Jefferson Hope 19:45, January 22, 2014 (UTC)

Early appearances of Dalton's Rassilon Edit

I'm having trouble figuring out why Terrorformer and Snow White and the Seven Keys to Doomsday used Timothy Dalton's likeness to depict Rassilon, given that both those appearances occur millennia (if not more) before The End of Time, when Rassilon presumably had another body. Has any satisfactory explanation ever been given? --LelalMekha 11:27, February 13, 2015 (UTC)

No narrative explanation, but I'm pretty sure Rassilon is able to choose his appereance and he could have chosen to "revisit an old face".HarveyWallbanger 12:04, February 13, 2015 (UTC)

Because the artists basically know about the new series Rassilon and no one else, and the fans will eat that up so they just go with it. OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 03:35, October 28, 2015 (UTC)

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