Wikia

TARDIS Index File

Let's drop "index file" from our name

  • CzechOut
    CzechOut closed this thread
    00:19, January 10, 2013

    I recently came across a 2005 question from one of our original admin that never got answered. It left me curious enough to rewatch Castrovalva very closely. The truth is that our article at TARDIS Index File is wrong, and therefore our name is, too. At no point do Nyssa and Tegan ever use the complete phrase "TARDIS Index File". They're merely looking for the not-proper-noun "index file" for the TARDIS information system.

    Admin note: Since this discussion began, the in-universe article TARDIS Index File has been deleted in the move to TARDIS information system.

    And that's what the name of the article should be, as there is no such thing as the "TARDIS Index File". An index file is just a gateway, a thing like Forum:Index, or a home page. It's not some specialised or independent part of the TARDIS. Most significantly, it is not the database onboard the TARDIS — which is what I think Freethinker1of1 maintained in the early years of this wiki. It would be most proper to call it the "index file of the TARDIS Information System".

    Because there is no such thing as the "TARDIS Index File", I propose that we just call ourselves the Tardis Wiki, and that we switch to this simpler logo:

    2013TardisLogo

    This would have the added advantage of being in harmony with our Twitter handle, email address, and the way that everyone in the broader wiki community generally thinks of us. In other words, "Index File" is already generally truncated, so let's just kill it in the logo, which is really one of the few places where the term remains.

      Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • Noooooo. Okay then. What we have at the moment is a bit of a mouthful and a bit to type. So I'm all for it.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • I'm against it. I like the name. However, I'm usually resistant to changes like this. But TARDIS Index Files just sounds so much better than just TARDIS. Sounds more complete.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • Regardless of it's background/origin, I like the name 'TARDIS Index File'. It shows originality in the naming of the wiki. Compare to Memory Alpha (which ironically in this case, is named after something in-universe).

      Calling the wiki 'TARDIS Wiki' makes little sense in my opinion. Is it a wiki about TARDISes? If one were to change the title to include 'wiki', it would in my opinion need to be 'Doctor Who Wiki' - which is rather boring and generic.

      On a separate note, what about the international versions? What are they called at the moment?

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • TARDIS Index File is a name that has grown on me, although it is a bit long, it is a good name and the name of this wiki should stay the same.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • Looking at some of the interwiki links:

      • the French version is just "Doctor Who"
      • German is "Doctor Who Wiki"
      • the logo on the Spanish site says "Doctor Wikipedia Who"
      • the one from the Netherlands is "Doctor Who Wiki"
      • the one which I believe is Romanian uses the same "TARDIS Index File" logo as this wiki
      • Italian="Doctor Who Wiki"
      • Polish="Doctor Who Wiki"
      • the Turkish one is "Doctor Who Turkey Wiki"

      And I can't even read, much less retype, the non-latin scripts of the other wikis linked on the front page (sorry and no offence to people from those countries). So there doesn't seem to be any standard title on the foreign wikis, although the rather boring "Doctor Who Wiki" seems to be the most popular option. Please please please can we not change our name to "Doctor Who Wiki".

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    • Eladkse wrote: Regardless of it's background/origin, I like the name 'TARDIS Index File'. It shows originality in the naming of the wiki. Compare to Memory Alpha (which ironically in this case, is named after something in-universe).

      Calling the wiki 'TARDIS Wiki' makes little sense in my opinion. Is it a wiki about TARDISes? If one were to change the title to include 'wiki', it would in my opinion need to be 'Doctor Who Wiki' - which is rather boring and generic.

      On a separate note, what about the international versions? What are they called at the moment?

      TARDIS as a noun does make some sense for the wiki. "A building or container that is larger inside than it appears to be from the outside" is the dictionary definition.

      I do however agree with Imamadmad, I do not support changing the wiki's name to "Doctor Who Wiki".

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    • I am 100% sticking with TARDIS index file. Whether they call it that or not in the show, I don't want this to be just aother the (insert subject here) wiki.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • Just to clarify my position, I do not support 'Doctor Who Wiki' - I was using it as an example of why I think we should stick to 'TARDIS Index File'.

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    • I would prefer to keep it as "Tardis index file." It's fun continuity and is also original.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • I too like the full name, Tardis Index File.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • I think that the existing name should be kept as it's a great name and it's very well established at this stage.

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    • OttselSpy25 wrote: I would prefer to keep it as "Tardis index file." It's fun continuity and is also original.

      Just to clarify, it's not continuous at all. My whole point is that it does not exist within continuity. The thing that exists within continuity is the Tardis Information System. It makes little sense for a place advertising itself as an encyclopaedia of Doctor Who knowledge should get something so basic as its name wrong.

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    • Eladkse wrote: On a separate note, what about the international versions? What are they called at the moment?

      We are — all of us — called "the Doctor Who Wiki" at some level, because we all can be reached by typing w:c:languagecode.doctorwho. Even this wiki is actually w:c:doctorwho.

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    • Imamadmad wrote: TARDIS Index Files just sounds so much better than just TARDIS. Sounds more complete.

      Look again at the logo. It doesn't just say "Tardis Wiki". It says Tardis DW Wiki. The point of the new logo is that it incorporates both urls that reach this site: w:c:tardis and w:c:doctorwho.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • GusF wrote: [Tardis Index File is] very well established at this stage.

      TardisAtWikiaDec2012

      This is what we look like on Wikia's front page — nary an index or file in sight.

      With whom? It's certainly not established very strongly in the minds of other Wikians. Go to w:c:community and you'll never hear "index file" there: it's always just "tardis".

      Worse, Wikia Staff never call it that. So when we get a spotlight or other promotion within the Wikia network, we're always, always, always referred to as "Tardis". Look at the picture at right. The name given in the lower left-hand corner is not changeable by local admin. Staff thinks of us as "Tardis", so that's how we're portrayed in any Wikia-wide advertising. Other Wikians — that is, the ones who don't regularly contribute here — doubtlessly remember "Tardis" as our name, because we're one of the only wikis who can make links without the w:c: bit. If you want to link to iCarly, you have to type w:c:iCarly:iCarly. If you want to link to TARDIS, you only have to type tardis:TARDIS. That distinction is something that admin and active users right the way across Wikia notice and remember.

      This proposal is thus merely bowing the reality of the power of our elegant, five-letter URL. It is not an attempt to practically change the name.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • ...Worse, Wikia Staff never call it that. So when we get a spotlight or other promotion within the Wikia network, we're always, always, always referred to as "Tardis". Look at the picture at right. The name given in the lower left-hand corner is not changeable by local admin. Staff thinks of us as "Tardis", so that's how we're portrayed in any Wikia-wide advertising. Other Wikians — that is, the ones who don't regularly contribute here — doubtlessly remember "Tardis" as our name, because we're one of the only wikis who can make links without the w:c: bit. If you want to link to iCarly, you have to type w:c:iCarly:iCarly. If you want to link to TARDIS, you only have to type tardis:TARDIS. That distinction is something that admin and active users right the way across Wikia notice and remember.

      Czech is an Icarly fan? Who would have thought. But besides that, Czech, we're "TARDIS" and you have to type out such because whoever made this wikia put the word "tardis" before the ".wikia.com". To get to the "Robotech Saga Wikia", you have to type w:c:robotoech:Robotech. Does that mean that that wikia is called "Robotech wikia"? Well, that's certainly a nickname, but technically our name is fully "Robotech Saga Wiki". Wikia's with names different from their url or even what people refer to them as is not uncommon, or bad really.

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    • I think you've slightly missed my point You can't get to Robotech by typing robotech:Robotech. Add the w:c: and it begins to look like a URL. Take away the w:c: and it seems like the name — in the same way that Wikipedia is unmistakably the wiki name conveyed by wikipedia:Supergirl.

      And, actually, no, the wiki was started as doctorwho.wikia.com and then later changed to tardis. That's why doctorwho is the base of the whole global family of Doctor Who wikis on Wikia, and not tardis.

      From a technical standpoint, we're doubly unique in the Wikia community because we have two shortform ways to link. Whether you type tardis:TARDIS or doctorwho:TARDIS you end up at our page, TARDIS. I'm not aware of any other Wikia wiki that can do that: startrek:Spock and wookieepedia:Yoda are nonstarters; they can only do memoryalpha:Spock and starwars:Yoda. And, here's the salient point: We can't do indexfile:Eleventh Doctor or tif:Eleventh Doctor or tardisindexfile:Eleventh Doctor.

      From a practical standpoint:

      • Wikia markets us as "Tardis"
      • We uniquely can link to our pages by two different names, neither of which contain "index file"
      • The proposed logo implies both of these link names
      • There is no such thing as a "Tardis Index File" within any DW narrative, so our name perpetuates a lie
      • From a design standpoint, it's massively easier to to deal with two words totalling 10 letters than three words totalling 15 — particularly when you're talking about the very confined space of the wordmark in the upper left-hand corner. Five letters may not seem like much, but it's obviously a third of the total width, meaning that the shortened logo will appear bigger, bolder and clearer.
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    • "There is no such thing as a "Tardis Index File" within any DW narrative, so our name perpetuates a lie"

      Is this really important in the grand scheme of things? Just because it isn't in the narrative doesn't mean it can't be used as the wiki's name. It's been used for the past years without any complaint.


      "Wikia markets us as 'Tardis'" "We uniquely can link to our pages by two different names, neither of which contain 'index file'"

      That's perfectly fine. I can't see how this has any bearing on the wiki being 'Tardis Index File'


      "The proposed logo implies both of these link names"

      So does the current one, so this is also a null point.


      "From a design standpoint, it's massively easier to to deal with two words totalling 10 letters than three words totalling 15 — particularly when you're talking about the very confined space of the wordmark in the upper left-hand corner. Five letters may not seem like much, but it's obviously a third of the total width, meaning that the shortened logo will appear bigger, bolder and clearer."

      I concede to your view on this point. Wordmark design is easier with less characters. However, this does not change my overall opinion.


      Now if I may address CzechOut directly, I think you need to be a little less critical of the other comments here and allow the community to make the decision.

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    • Eladkse wrote: Now if I may address CzechOut directly, I think you need to be a little less critical of the other comments here and allow the community to make the decision.

      I know what you're saying. There's a risk that I'm putting people off. But in my mind, there is a huge difference between active defence of an idea and an unwillingness to be governed by consensus.

      Fighting a spirited campaign means that various assumptions are thoroughly vetted. I think it shows respect for the other participants, because I'm taking their ideas seriously enough to argue against them.

      And it often yields fruit.

      For instance, it was good that I broached the idea of the new design incorporating "tardis" and "doctorwho" because it allowed you to point out that the current design already does this — something I hadn't actually considered. Consequently, the weakness of that particular aspect of my argument is revealed, and it can now be dismissed.

      This is a huge decision, so if the community decides to stick where we are, I want to make sure that they're doing so after having fully considered the facts. That way, if people 2 years from now say, "Why is this place called the "Tardis Index File?", we can just point them to Thread:117468 and be reasonably assured that they'll see their questions addressed somewhere in here.

      I am always reminded in these counter-intuitive decisions of the long discussion, Italics or Quotation marks? I lost that battle, but at least it had the virtue of being thoroughly argued. Now, the fact that we counter-intuitively use italics to indicate episode names – like A Good Man Goes to War — can at least be said to be the will of the community, even though it goes against virtually every English-language manual of style.

      In the same way, if we're going to keep this logo, we need to be very clear that we do so despite a number of facts that argue against it.

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    • Well, when you said that nobody calls the wiki by the Index Files bit outside this wiki, well, when I refer to it outside this wiki, especially on the answers wiki because people will know what I'm talking about I prefer to say the Index Files. It just fits in conversation. Also, proof that at least one person uses it!

      Anyway, as someone above pointed out, I don't see the difference between the name and the URL to be significant as the URL (and linking name) is just a shortening of the name, not a new name. Not a big enough problem for a name change over, surely.

      Also, with the logo, I think it looks perfect the size it is. The longest part of the DW bit is about equal in height (and positioning) to the nav bar beside it and the shorter heights are about the same size as the text giving the name. The logo fits perfectly into that space, and it looks good. Bigger isn't always better. If anything, I think the proposed new logo looks a bit too big and chunky, (although that might be because of the magnification. Could you put in that version in the size it would actually appear beside the nav bar?)

      Another point, I really don't want the Index Files to turn into just another of those "... Wiki" wikis. It looks better, more professional in a way (ok, professional might be the wrong word here, but you get my point), to not have it say wiki. I would be almost fine with any name change as long as it doesn't incorporate the word wiki!

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    • I feel you on the word "wiki". You've well explained why that word doesn't work.

      I wanna ask this question — not specifically of you, Imamadmad, but sort of anyone in the thread. If Tardis Wiki doesn't work, should we attempt to go for the item which has the strength of being within continuity? It's longer and it's a design nightmare in the wordmark, but is there any traction for the name Tardis Information System?  

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    • I like it better than just plain "Tardis".

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    • Agreed with Shambala108. Better than TARDIS Wiki. If we have to change, that would be my preference. But I would prefer we stayed the same as everyone already knows this as TARDIS Index Files. However, if we had to change, I wouldn't object to TARDIS Information System.

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    • I quite dislike just being 'TARDIS Wiki'. I like 'Doctor Who Wiki', but it is kinda boring, so I understand why people are against it. 'TARDIS Information System' works for me.

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    • there is no good reason it should change, and many good reasons to stay the same. Although as the doctor once said, ' The way I see it, every life is a pile of good things and bad things. The good things don't always soften the bad things, but vice versa, the bad things don't necessarily spoil the good things or make them unimportant.'

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    • I think if we do anything we should change the name to what actually exists in the DWU.

      I know we've got our own sometimes quirky ways of doing things here. But calling our wiki after something that doesn't exist in the DWU is a little bit odd.

      So I support Tardis Information System.

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    • If it was a straight choice between TARDIS Information System and TARDIS Wiki, I'd definitely choose the latter as the former seems a bit boring.

      But personally I don't really see it as a big issue that the Wiki is named after something that doesn't exist in the Whoniverse.

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    • GusF wrote: If it was a straight choice between TARDIS Information System and TARDIS Wiki, I'd definitely choose the latter as the former seems a bit boring.

      But personally I don't really see it as a big issue that the Wiki is named after something that doesn't exist in the Whoniverse.

      How so? Shouldn't we be able to justify why the wiki is names the way it's named?

      That it's named after a mistake in watching Castrovalva is somewhat odd.

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    • STRONG STRONG OPPOSE

      As it has been said many a times above, who cares what it was on the show, this isn't that, this is a Wikia about Doctor Who, we can call it what we like. I like the name. It doesn't matter if somepeople call it the 'TARDIS wikia', because that's just a colloquial name, even I use it to call it shorthand, but officially, it should stay 'TARDIS index file Wikia'.

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    • Sichamousacoricothingmabob wrote: STRONG STRONG OPPOSE

      As it has been said many a times above, who cares what it was on the show, this isn't that, this is a Wikia about Doctor Who, we can call it what we like. I like the name. It doesn't matter if somepeople call it the 'TARDIS wikia', because that's just a colloquial name, even I use it to call it shorthand, but officially, it should stay 'TARDIS index file Wikia'.

      Agreed. The point just doesn't stand much ground; so what if it wasn't used in a narrative? What's the problem with that? Basically you should just drop that argument now...

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    • OttselSpy25 wrote:

      Sichamousacoricothingmabob wrote: STRONG STRONG OPPOSE

      As it has been said many a times above, who cares what it was on the show, this isn't that, this is a Wikia about Doctor Who, we can call it what we like. I like the name. It doesn't matter if somepeople call it the 'TARDIS wikia', because that's just a colloquial name, even I use it to call it shorthand, but officially, it should stay 'TARDIS index file Wikia'.

      Agreed. The point just doesn't stand much ground; so what if it wasn't used in a narrative? What's the problem with that? Basically you should just drop that argument now...

      To Sichamousacoricothingmabob, I would just point out that that isn't what the name of the wiki is at the moment. It is the TARDIS Index File, the Doctor Who Wiki. Wikia is the company/organisation that hosts all the wikis.

      To OttselSpy25, this is a discussion not an argument. The problem is that we should be internally consistent and be able to explain to new users why things are the way they are, either through internal show logic or as this discussion may show through community discussion.

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    • Maybe you could call it Tardis Doctor Who Wiki

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    • Jastennant4 wrote: Maybe you could call it Tardis Doctor Who Wiki

      No offence or anything, but that's even worse! A no from me on that one

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    • No offence taken, came up with that name randomly :)

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    • Here's a possibility for what the logo might look like if we went with the more accurate name "Tardis Information System":

      TardisInformationSystem

      This is a really rough mock up, more or less done to test the tremendous expansion in number of letters from the current Very Odd Name.

      In actual implementation, though, I think we'd have to go with a two part logo. This would be the actual wordmark:

      TardisWithTARDIS

      Then, we'd get rid of the Gallifreyan script background and replace it with a background that had the words "Information System". That way, everything would be much clearer.

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    • There's something I'd like to address about "Index File". From Castrovalva:

      TEGAN: Tardis Information System. Ready For Entry.
      NYSSA: A databank!
      TEGAN: Will it tell us how to fly the Tardis?
      NYSSA: I'm sure that's in here somewhere, once we find the index file.
      TEGAN: How do we find the index file? Of course, if we had an index file, we could look it up in the index file, under index file. What am I saying? I'm talking nonsense.
      NYSSA: Recursion isn't nonsense.
      TEGAN: Eh?
      NYSSA: That's an example of recursion, when procedures fold back on themselves. If you had an index file, you could look it up in the index file.
      TEGAN: If. My Dad used to say that if was the most powerful word in the English language.
      NYSSA: Recursion's a powerful mathematical concept, but I don't see how it can help us now.
      TEGAN: If. I F! Stands for index file!

      While it may not be called "index file", the use of the name appears in the story more than "information system" does. Also, Tegan's use of "index file" leads to the revelation of recursion, which is what Castrovalva (the place) is all about and is important to the resolution of the story. So it's not an error and it is important.

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    • Shambala108 wrote: While it may not be called "index file", the use of the name appears in the story more than "information system" does. Also, Tegan's use of "index file" leads to the revelation of recursion, which is what Castrovalva (the place) is all about and is important to the resolution of the story. So it's not an error and it is important.

      I would say that if it's not called an "index file" then it *is* an error to call it one. We're supposed to be an encyclopaedia. It's the central job of an encyclopaedia to be a repository of facts — not near facts. And as the script quotation proves, the index file is merely a part of the TARDIS Information System — or, really, that it's just a general computing term that Nyssa is pulling from her own scientific background. That is, it's a standard part of any computing system that she imagines must be present in the Tardis Information System as well.

      How do we know that the thing is actually called the "TARDIS Information System"? Because we have art. Below is the very first picture ever uploaded to this site, which makes it doubly confusing why the founders called this the "TARDIS Index File".

      TardisInformationSystem
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    • In case it's a little hard to imagine the proposed new logo in situ, here's what it would look like if you took the background element ("Information System") and threw it against the actual wordmark (TARDIS):

      TardisInformationSystemIntegrated
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    • CzechOut wrote:

      GusF wrote: [Tardis Index File is] very well established at this stage.

      TardisAtWikiaDec2012

      This is what we look like on Wikia's front page — nary an index or file in sight.

      With whom? It's certainly not established very strongly in the minds of other Wikians. Go to w:c:community and you'll never hear "index file" there: it's always just "tardis".

      Worse, Wikia Staff never call it that. So when we get a spotlight or other promotion within the Wikia network, we're always, always, always referred to as "Tardis". Look at the picture at right. The name given in the lower left-hand corner is not changeable by local admin. Staff thinks of us as "Tardis", so that's how we're portrayed in any Wikia-wide advertising. Other Wikians — that is, the ones who don't regularly contribute here — doubtlessly remember "Tardis" as our name, because we're one of the only wikis who can make links without the w:c: bit. If you want to link to iCarly, you have to type w:c:iCarly:iCarly. If you want to link to TARDIS, you only have to type tardis:TARDIS. That distinction is something that admin and active users right the way across Wikia notice and remember.

      This proposal is thus merely bowing the reality of the power of our elegant, five-letter URL. It is not an attempt to practically change the name.

      I'm an admin on one of the other wikis with that same privilege - The Morphin Grid, which has the primary domain of powerrangers.wikia.com, and can be accessed by typing powerrangers:. Just as tardis is a redirect of doctorwho, supersentai is a redirect for powerrangers (although the supersentai one does require the w:c:, as we adopted the domain later after the wiki originally in that namespace was abandoned). The name was originally Power Ranger Universe, but there was another website called that and we also cover the Japanese version, Super Sentai, so I had it changed to The Morphin Grid upon my promotion to admin. It's named after something mentioned in Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. Since this wiki also covers other shows (spin-offs), a generic franchise term like Tardis is definitely better than the bland Doctor Who Wiki. You're right though that Tardis Information System is rather too long for the wordmark - Tardis Index File looks squashed as it is. If you go with that name, the background thing is definitely the way to go.

      Oh, and CzechOut, is that Tardis Information System screen using Ceefax tech? lol

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    • I like the TARDIS Information System idea. It has continuity, and doesn't make us end up with another boring wiki title.

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    • Okay, we've set with this proposal for a few weeks now. Let's try to move to some sort of closure. With the exception of Quest?on, who's essentially just voted, please indicate your preference from the choices below:

      • Tardis
      • Tardis Index File
      • Tardis Information System
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    • Tardis Index File

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    • I would prefer TARDIS Index File, but I wouldn't complain too much about TARDIS Information System. I would complain about just TARDIS though.

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    • TARDIS Information System.

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    • TARDIS index file.

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    • TARDIS Index File.

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    • TARDIS index file

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • TARDIS information system

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    • Tardis Index File

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    • TARDIS Information System

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • TARDIS Index File

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    • TARDIS Index File

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    • TARDIS Index File

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    • I'm probably a tad late to voice myself and I haven't read the entire discussion, but from what I understand TARDIS Index File is not a element of the DWU, in which case it seems to be a non-option, unless we're inventing it for our own purposes. I often forget 'Index File' is the full title as it finds little propagation... anywhere. I can't imagine anyone has any sentimental bearing upon this, so I don't see why it can't be changed.

      Basically,

      Tardis Wiki.
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    • The index file was mentioned in Castrovalva and played an important part in resolving the mystery of the place Castrovalva (I posted a series of quotes from the story above). So it is part of the DWU.

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    • TARDIS Index File

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    • I see... then the case for changing is to conform to the url...?

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    • Shambala108 wrote: The index file was mentioned in Castrovalva and played an important part in resolving the mystery of the place Castrovalva (I posted a series of quotes from the story above). So it is part of the DWU.

      Again, this is absolutely untrue, as your earlier transcript proves. There is no such thing as a "Tardis Index File". There is an index file (generic computing term) of the Tardis Information System.

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    • Skittles the hog wrote: I see... then the case for changing is to conform to the url...?

      No, the case is that there is no such thing as a "Tardis Index File". Let's look at exactly what Tegan and Nyssa say. Note the first two lines, because they're really the most relevant:

      TEGAN: Tardis Information System. Ready For Entry.
      NYSSA: A databank!

      It couldn't be more explicit that the name of the "databank" is "Tardis Information System". And the picture, which I've posted upthread, confirms this visually. So both what we hear and what we see says that the name of the whole database is "Tardis Information System". It's not "Tardis Index File", which three words are never said consecutively, nor even intimated, in the script of Castrovalva. According to Nyssa, the index file is just a part of the TIS:

      TEGAN: Will it tell us how to fly the Tardis?
      NYSSA: I'm sure that's in here somewhere, once we find the index file.
      TEGAN: How do we find the index file? Of course, if we had an index file, we could look it up in the index file, under index file. What am I saying? I'm talking nonsense.

      Clearly, the index file is merely a navigation aid through the database. It is not the database itself. And the phrase "Tardis Index File" is in itself ambiguous because you could have index files on several systems in the TARDIS. There could be a navigational computer index file. The food machine almost certainly has some kind of index file. The chameleon circuit could have an index file. An index file is, in more modern computing parlance, simply a directory. That's it. So every system on the ship would, at some level, have an index file.

      Thus, "Tardis Information System" is the closest narrative analogue to what this wiki is, though just Tardis is what most people who don't edit here think the name is.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • So far TARDIS Index File is winning 10:3. It obviously has some sentimental value in some of us, including myself. It also sounds much better, in my opinion. We've had this name for a long time and I don't think it should change. But if it really really has to be changed, then Information System. But I'm really quite attached to our present name and logo.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • Well, your math is wrong, consensus isn't really about math anyway, and the logo is definitely going to be changed, regardless of the outcome of this discussion.

      I will say, however, that at the moment it doesn't look like there's a consensus to change the name. On the other hand there's consensus amongst admin to change the name, which is a complicating factor.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • Think about an index at the back of a book. And then think about a computer file (eg. Word document). All an 'index file' is is an index from the back of the book but on a computer.

      This wiki is not just an index; it is the whole database.

      Having it pointed out to me makes it obvious now that TIF is not a very good name at all...

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • CzechOut wrote: I will say, however, that at the moment it doesn't look like there's a consensus to change the name. On the other hand there's consensus amongst admin to change the name, which is a complicating factor.

      It isn't a complicating factor at all. You've opened this discussion to the community, hence it is a community decision. Admin views are no more important.

      When this voting process closes (whenever that is - I assume 24 Jan?) any changes should be based on the community decision, not what the admins think is best. If otherwise, there's no point in us voting.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • I agree with smallerontheoutside, the name is more popular due to sentiment. Although Tardis Information System is a really good name if the current one needs replacing and has relevance in the DWU, it isn't wanted dramatically or needed sufficiently.

      And admin votes shouldn't count more or less towards decisions like these. Changes should be made with the support of the community, not just the people that run it.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • CzechOut wrote: No, the case is that there is no such thing as a "Tardis Index File".

      Right, that's what I originally thought.

      I think you'll (that's the community, not you Czech) find that on the whole, consensus is not defined by numbers anyway, but rather discussion. I fail to see any outstanding reasons why Tardis Index File should stand, which suggests it's tipping in favour of a name change. I really don't think it's a good idea to use the name of something that's not even in the DWU. I'm personally also against Tardis Information System as, while it does have foundation, there's simply no need for it. Tardis Wiki is helpfully concise; I doubt the "outside world" gives a damn about some superfluous reference anyway.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • And I don't give a damn about what the "outside world" thinks. If the "outside world" thought we were a wiki that covered Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, that wouldn't make it true. And we don't want to sound like just every other wiki. That's boring, and then we wouldn't stand out as much. TARDIS Wiki is about the most boring, standard name that could be thought of apart from Doctor Who Wiki, which would be wrong anyway seeing as we cover more than just DW. And this is one of the few times when consensus is more important than discussion. This is a name, not some thoroughly thought through policy. Names are one of the few kinds of things where sentiment and preference play a large part.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • Surely you acknowledge the necessity of appealing to people beyond the wiki? After all, we need to grow the community. And no, I thoroughly dispute the notion that numbers and personal preference are more important here than logic. We are not known as Tardis Index File beyond our own page header, so we're not original as it is, not that that even matters. Tardis Information System does have some credence, so I'd be willing to compromise on that.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • Eladkse wrote: ... any changes should be based on the community decision, not what the admins think is best. If otherwise, there's no point in us voting.

      I'm a little bit sensitive to this idea that you seem to be repeating that I'm not playing fair with this discussion. I feel obliged to point out that this is a far broader and longer-lasting discussion than what happened to get us to "Tardis Index File" in the first place. That original process was one that was largely done by administrative fiat, so this process is a step up from that for the community.

      Let's be very clear about our past: the original name of the wiki was "Tardis Information System", as you can see by reading this early 2005 post from Freethinker1of1 to Josiah Rowe. Obviously, Freethinker1of1 was aware of the proper, in-universe name, because he was the original uploader of file:TardisInformationSystem.jpg, the very first image ever uploaded to this wiki.

      However, he simply decided to go in another direction and that was that. Note this fascinating exchange from Talk:Doctor Who Wiki/Archive 1:

      Hey! I just noticed: on the front page and the Manual of Style, the site is referred to as TARDIS Index File, but on the main Help page and Help:Editing it's called TARDIS Information System. Which is the site's name? --Josiah Rowe 05:51, 23 Feb 2005 (GMT)

      From the deletion log:
      21:30, 21 Feb 2005 Freethinker1of1 deleted "TARDIS Information System" (Incorrect title for this article. Created new one with correct title.)
      So, it looks like the title should now be TARDIS Index File. Angela 07:25, 23 Feb 2005 (GMT)


      Founder here. When I posted announcements about the site to some of the Doctor Who newsgroups and discussion forums, a few people asked if the correct name for the database shouldn't be "Index File," since that's what Tegan and Nyssa were looking for when they got the screen reading, "TARDIS Information System - Ready for Entry" to come up. I decided either term would be correct, but "TARDIS Index File" would be a much less cumbersome one. My apologies for not announcing this change beforehand. So, yes, the name is now TARDIS Index File. That said, if you come across a page I missed, which still gives the site name as TARDIS Information System, please feel free to change it. Thanks. --Freethinker1of1 12:34, 23 Feb 2005 (GMT)

      Fair enough! --Josiah Rowe 17:23, 23 Feb 2005 (GMT)

      So what we see is that Freethinker1of1 — who incidentally was not the wiki's founder despite his claim — gave the wiki the name "Tardis Index File":

      • after having called the wiki, properly, the "Tardis Information System"
      • based on the mistaken notion that "Tardis Information System" was a synonym for "Tardis Index File"
      • capriciously, and without even telling his own admin
      • unilaterally
      • well prior to the 2007 DVD release of Castrovalva, which obviously allows for a more careful understanding of the script
      • despite the objection that he must have seen at the talk page of the in-universe "not-quite-namesake", by someone he later made an admin

      In other words, there is precedence on this wiki for admins just makin' the name up and moving on. It's important to understand that this is the first time that we've ever discussed the appropriateness of the name in what might be considered "the full light of day".

      Now let's fast forward to 2008, where other practical parts of the name were decided.

      The "SEO name" (which actually is "Doctor Who Wiki" or doctorwho.wikia.com) was actually decided by Toughpigs. He notified us of the change, but basically it was Wikia-imposed for good technical reasons.

      Similarly, nothing abut our MediaWiki:Pagetitle was really up for significant discussion. It was directly changed by both Kirkburn and Toughpigs and stood that way until 2010. It was only then that it was revised by Tangerineduel following any sort of genuine community discussion. In other words, there was direct Wikia intervention to incorporate the phrase "Doctor Who Wiki" — the very name that some in this thread regard as mundane — onto our pages, resulting in the unwieldy "Tardis Index File, the Doctor Who Wiki".

      Thus, Freethinker1of1's original reason for changing to "Tardis Index File" — that it would be "less cumbersome" than "Tardis Information System" — was shot. Obviously, if we want to go less cumbersome, but still have a high Google ranking, what we want is, as I originally argued, Tardis, the Doctor Who Wiki. But there is no significant degree of svelteness to "Tardis Index File" over "Tardis Information System", which, to my mind, would mean that we should prefer the thing which is actually in Castrovalva, as opposed to the thing which some people on Usenet back in 2005 thought was in Castrovalva.

      So clearly there is a tension between administrative will and community decision-making. A discussion which results in all responding admin being firmly on one side, while most other users aren't, is somewhat tricky. Admin have a responsibility to consider the wiki's best interests, while community members can sometimes be swayed by simply what seems cool. I'm not saying that's what's happening in this case necessarily. I'm just pointing out that what might be uppermost in the administrative mindset (for example, SEO rankings, perception of our name in the wider Wikia community, and the fact that a logo that just says "TARDIS" is easier to make and to read than one that says "Tardis Index File") is different to that of the average user who simply "likes" the current name.

      That's why I agree with SirBanstead when he says, "admin votes shouldn't count more or less towards decisions like these" — but I also swiftly have to point out that completely disregarding the unanimous opinion of (current) administrators is a non-starter, too.

      What I think I've not heard so far from this discussion is a solid reason to keep Tardis Index File — despite Shambala108's best attempt. The principle arguments have seemingly been based on nostalgia.

      The way I see it, there is no consensus to change in this discussion, but neither is there a consensus to keep. There is simply no consensus. In wiki discussions, that generally results in no change, but it also results in dissatisfaction and subsequent debates.

      What I'm looking for are good, solid, practical reasons why:

      • we need more than just "Tardis"
      • should it be something which is not only unsupported by narrative but also makes no literal sense (i.e., this is a databank, not merely the index file of the databank)
      • it has to be based on something seen in Castrovalva

      What I want is a clear victory for a name, so that we can say, "this name has been decided by the community", and for that statement to be unambiguously true. The current state of this discussion does not allow for that eventuality.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • Hmmm...Based off that post, if I'm allowed, I change my vote to Tardis Information System.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • Given that keeping the Wiki's title as it is doesn't seem to be on the cards, I think that plain, simple "Tardis" is the best option. Barring that, "Tardis, the Doctor Who Wiki" would be my next choice.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • Eladkse wrote:

      CzechOut wrote: I will say, however, that at the moment it doesn't look like there's a consensus to change the name. On the other hand there's consensus amongst admin to change the name, which is a complicating factor.

      It isn't a complicating factor at all. You've opened this discussion to the community, hence it is a community decision. Admin views are no more important.

      When this voting process closes (whenever that is - I assume 24 Jan?) any changes should be based on the community decision, not what the admins think is best. If otherwise, there's no point in us voting.

      My thoughts exactly. If we are to have a forum "discussion" on the name, I think we should count all voters as the same.

      What it boils down to, in my opinion that is, is that Tardis Information System is too silly a name for high popularity, and Tardis Index File is too sentimental for a large group to want to change. "tardis" also is simply not good enough.

      In my opinion "Tardis Index File" is simply the best name of the choices, despite continuity. Also "The Index File" is cannon, just as a description, not a name of the Information System itself. Thus it is a fine name.

      Also, welcome back Skittles.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • Thanks. In the festive spirit, I decided to resume my role as the ghost of Christmas past. Anyway, I don't think it was ever suggested that admin are democratically superior.

      I do agree that Tardis Information System is quite a silly name, but Index File has obviously outstayed its welcome - it's not in the DWU and simply inventing it ourselves is, at least to my mind, ironic when we ruthlessly jettison such things elsewhere.

      I can defeat my own point by saying it's just a header and hasn't proved a problem thus far, but that also goes to show how much of a non-issue changing it to something more canonically acceptable would/should be. And no, I don't want to debate canon.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • Skittles the hog wrote: Thanks. In the festive spirit, I decided to resume my role as the ghost of Christmas past. Anyway, I don't think it was ever suggested that admin are democratically superior.

      I do agree that Tardis Information System is quite a silly name, but Index File has obviously outstayed its welcome - it's not in the DWU and simply inventing it ourselves is, at least to my mind, ironic when we ruthlessly jettison such things elsewhere.

      I can defeat my own point by saying it's just a header and hasn't proved a problem thus far, but that also goes to show how much of a non-issue changing it to something more canonically acceptable would/should be. And no, I don't want to debate canon.

      Okay, I do this a lot, so if I say Cannon, it either means "valid source" or "valid ___", i.e. "This episode is canon" -> "This episode is a valid source" and "This is a cannon description" -> "This is a valid description". I mean, they're basically the same thing.

      Back on subject, if "Tardis Index File" has "worn out it's welcome", (and I don't think it particularly has, but I'm wrong a lot) then we need better names suggested. "Tardis Information System" is bad as per was why it was rejected in the first pace; it's "cumbersome" and unattractive. It's not a good name. And "Tardis" is just too damn simple. If we truly should gain a new name, then we need to think of one that is actually good. Otherwise, no one will back this plan up.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • OttselSpy25 wrote: If we truly should gain a new name, then we need to think of one that is actually good. Otherwise, no one will back this plan up.

      Anyone have any other ideas?

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • OttselSpy25 wrote:

      What it boils down to, in my opinion that is, is that Tardis Information System is too silly a name for high popularity,

      Why? Or, more elaborately, why is it less silly than our misunderstanding of the script that brought us the "index file"? I'd almost wager money that if Christopher H. Bidmead has ever heard of our little wiki, he's probably raised an eyebrow over our name.

      "tardis" also is simply not good enough.

      Elaborate, please. It's what we are commonly called throughout the Wikia network. It's our URL and our interwiki link name. How is it not good enough?

      Also "The Index File" is cannon

      Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. Stop it with the the conflation of "canon"and "valid source" already.

      Anyway, you seem to be suggesting that you can just sort of assemble a name from whatever parts happen to be lying around. And while that might be true, that's not how this name was chosen, as the above evidence clearly shows. "Tardis Index File" was born of a mistake, not an intentional mashup. For years, TARDIS Index File was linked not to a page in the Tardis namespace which explained what the wiki was about. Instead it was the name of what is, as of today, the TARDIS information system article. Freethinker1of1 wrongly believed that the phrases "Tardis Index File" and "Tardis Information System" were synonyms, so he went for the shorter one.

      I'm not saying that we can't take two phrases and mash them together to create something which is not actually present in a narrative. I'm saying that "Tardis Index File" feels like an obvious mistake to anyone who has actually seen Castrovalva lately.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • Cult Of Skaro wrote:

      OttselSpy25 wrote: If we truly should gain a new name, then we need to think of one that is actually good. Otherwise, no one will back this plan up.

      Anyone have any other ideas?

      Yeah, at this point, we probably do need to just move on and look for a new horse we all can ride.

      Let's try:

      Tardis Data Core

      It comes from State of Decay, where the Fourth Doctor tells K9 to look for the Record of Rassilon buried deep in the TARDIS' data core.

      Even better, data cores are somewhat common in the DWU. There was famously the Data Core of The Library and also data cores related to Trion civilisation in Planet of Fire. It's a nicely generic term used across DWU civilisations

      Administratively, I love this possibility because it's 8 letters and a space in addition to the word TARDIS. The logo derived from it will be clear, simple, and easy-to-read at the wordmark dimensions.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • By the way, you might be thinking, "well, data core is only one letter less than index file, but it very much matters what those letters are. In "index file", the presence of three thin letters together — fil — creates a practical ligature, which means that it can be hard to distinguish between those letters — especially if you have to decrease the kern, or "smash the letters together".

      Effectively, we really can't do a lower case version of the logo because of this pseudo-ligature.

      With "data core", you've got nice, rounded letters bumping up against each other that will be distinct even if you decrease the kern to the point that the letters actually overlap.

      I know it may seem silly and nitpicky, but data core opens up so many graphical possibilities that index file precludes.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, and can I say that a few more times? It sounds, er, well, as Clyde would say, "Cool", it's not boring, and it's in canon! My vote goes to TARDIS data core.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • Well I don't know about-

      • Stops to say it out loud. *

      ...

      Oh yeah, that's it.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • I like data core. TARDIS Data Core sounds good to me.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • TARDIS Data Core sounds good. As short Index File, and just as descriptive.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • I'm all for TARDIS Data Core.
      
        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • It would need to be TARDIS Data Core as everyone is writing it, not Tardis Data Core, as CzechOut wrote it.

      Small difference that I'm probably being particular about but the case difference is notable and is partially the difference between Dr.Who's Tardis and the Doctor's TARDIS.

      I think TARDIS Data Core is better as a reflection of something in the narrative than what we have at the moment. TARDIS Information System though, while long does provide us with a graphic to point to. TARDIS Data Core does not, though that's not a reason to count it out.

      I was and continue to be in favour of anything that is derived from narrative valid sources. As for actually liking TARDIS Data Core, I'm a little indifferent, I don't like it any less than TARDIS Information System.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • I, for one, love TARDIS Data Core. It's much better than the very, very boring sounding TARDIS Information System.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • Tangerineduel wrote: It would need to be TARDIS Data Core as everyone is writing it, not Tardis Data Core, as CzechOut wrote it.

      Small difference that I'm probably being particular about but the case difference is notable and is partially the difference between Dr.Who's Tardis and the Doctor's TARDIS.

      Well, that goes explicitly against T:TARDIS. The wiki is Tardis, the craft is TARDIS. The distinction is of course arbitrary, but it's necessary to have a clear rule, given the fact that the Doctor's TARDIS was capitalised "Tardis" for about the first 30 years of the print franchise, and that capitalisation remains the most common in the 21st century press. The presence of Tardis in the Dalek movies is by far the minority usage of that capitalisation. Many Doctor Who writers seem to feel that it's somewhat like the situation with radar, another lower-case acronym.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • If we're going with DC or IS to avoid the non-narrative IF, then we have to go with the proper TARDIS, too. Wikia can call it what they like, but the logo etc. needs to be TARDIS Data Core.

      "The term radar has since entered English and other languages as the common noun radar, losing all capitalization." Radar is a word in it's own right, whereas TARDIS, I believe, is not - it is only an acronym.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • Tardis1963 wrote: If we're going with DC or IS to avoid the non-narrative IF, then we have to go with the proper TARDIS, too. Wikia can call it what they like, but the logo etc. needs to be TARDIS Data Core.

      "The term radar has since entered English and other languages as the common noun radar, losing all capitalization." Radar is a word in it's own right, whereas TARDIS, I believe, is not - it is only an acronym.

      Yeah, this is a common belief by a lot of fans, but even a tiny bit of research shows it to be wrong.

      RADAR is an acronym (RAdio Detection And Ranging) which has passed into general English as a common noun (radar), but the acronymic meaning is still understood by those familiar with the underlying science. Similarly, Tardis is an acronym that is generally styled with (mostly) lowercase letters — unless you're a fan (of a certain age).

      There's perhaps no easier proof for the "common" capitalisation than the Oxford Dictionary definition:

      Tardis |ˈtɑːdɪs|

      noun
      1. a time machine.
      2. a building or container that is larger inside than it appears to be from outside.
      ORIGIN the name (said to be an acronym of time and relative dimensions in space) of a time machine which had the exterior of a police telephone box in the British TV science-fiction series Doctor Who, first broadcast in 1963.

      This is why the British press almost always use that form of the word. It's also what the Radio Times have done since 1963.

      Moreover, there are hundreds of officially licensed Doctor Who stories in which "Tardis" is the correct and invariable capitalisation. Tardis was the house style of World Distributors Doctor Who annuals, for instance.

      So the truth is that either TARDIS or Tardis is defensibly "correct", which is why the arbitrary stylistic rule of T:TARDIS is required.

      Note that the logo may well contain an uppercase TARDIS, just as it currently does. But the name given in ordinary text as at MediaWiki:Pagetitle should be Tardis. This incidentally, but not insignificantly, helps our SEO. And, of course, it reaches out to the not-so-hardcore fan, who see our name repeatedly in Google searches.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • I was under the mistaken belief it seems that the T:TARDIS related to technical limitations with the namespace.

      As we are proposing to rename the wiki for thing that exists in the DWU should we not preserve the casing of that thing? If we're dropping the case on TARDIS Data Core are we not, to a much less extent, but still, going back to TARDIS Index File, which is a fiction, much like Tardis Data Core would be?

      The common usage of "tardis" is uncapitalised, but we aren't using it in it as a common noun.

      As for the usage of tardis in the "World Distributors Doctor Who annuals etc" I think you would find that the overwhelming usage style would be an uppercase TARDIS.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • Wasn't it also the house style of the World Distributors annuals to refer to the Doctor as "Dr Who" in the text of the stories, at least during the early years? Not really sure if that's the best source to be citing.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • I don't really mind the capitalization as long as it's TARDIS in the logo.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • I don't think it is right having it Tardis instead of TARDIS.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • I really don't want this conversation derailed on the subject of capitalisation. The logo will definitely contain the word styled as TARDIS, just as it currently does. We can debate T:TARDIS elsewhere, and at another time. I would, however, point people in the direction of TARDIS#Behind the scenes for an extensively annotated examination of this issue.

      Are there any objections to the name Tardis Data Core, other than the capitalisation issue?

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • Absolutely not. See my above explanation of my love for the name. :D

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • Tangerineduel seemed to be requesting a graphic for the TDC idea, so here's an initial stab:

      TardisDataCore1

      Colours subject to change

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • 1. Please let that not be the final TARDIS image
      2. Mostly like the text, I would maybe capitalize data and core. The lowercase looks fine in an article name, but a bit odd on the logo.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
      1. Please, of please let that not be the final TARDIS image.
      2. I feel as if the text could use a change.
        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • Okay, guys: specifics. It's not enough in a creative process to just say "that sucks". What about the TARDIS image do you not like? And could you be a little more specific than, "I feel as if the text could use a change"?

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • The TARDIS image is snowy and I'm not fond of it. I'd prefera higher quality image, maybe from a diffrent angle.

      I dislike the lower casing on the second row.

      And I'm not a big fan of those triangle bits in the word 'TARDIS'. But, as I would like to point out, this may be just a negative first reaction. It's entirely possible that in a week I'll love it.

      Except for that TARDIS image. I dislike that entirely.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • It's "snowy" because it's dematerialising. And it's a very high quality image with a pixellation effect deliberately overlaid. Do try to remember that this won't be seen at these dimensions. THe actual logo is mainly seen at a much smaller size.

      TardisDataCore1

      This is closer to actual size

      If you're clicking this image to go through and look at it at the file:TardisDataCore1.png page, you're seeing it at a much larger size than intended.

      Also, remember that I can't just use any old font off the internet. For legal reasons, it's gotta be something that's free/public domain/CC-BY-SA.

      I'll provide a few more variations, but please be mindful of the limitations when trying to assess these logos.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • I don't think that it's obvious that the TARDIS is supposed to be materialising though.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • I quite like the font for 'TARDIS', but I don't like the serif font used for 'data core'. I'd also like to see it in uppercase. I know you are limited in font choice, but I'm sure there are some sans-serif fonts you can use.

      As for the materialisation effect - even at 250x65px - it still looks to me like a poor-quality image. Perhaps you could render one without the noise for comparison?

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • I like it much more at that size I suppose, but the words "Data Core" could still be capitalised.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • GusF wrote: I don't think that it's obvious that the TARDIS is supposed to be materialising though.

      Yeah, it looks more like someone tried to take a good snap of the TARDIS from the Pertwee era.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • Cult Of Skaro wrote:

      GusF wrote: I don't think that it's obvious that the TARDIS is supposed to be materialising though.

      Yeah, it looks more like someone tried to take a good snap of the TARDIS from the Pertwee era.

      Maybe you could set it at an interesting opacity setting. Also the light on the top should be on if we're trying to make that affect.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • Well, I'm opposed to the notion of "data core" being capitalised. To me, the appeal of the words is that you can use uncapitalised words. After looking at it more, I basically do agree that the TARDIS itself is a little too busy. Here's another design, this time representing the TARDIS more symbolically than not.

      And before you guys pounce on me, the word "TARDIS" is in fact in upper case. That's just how this font represents uppercase.

      TardisDataCore2
        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • Hmmm...The TARDIS is improved, I don't like the font. Uppercase or not, the fact is it looks lowercase.
      You've redecorated...Hmmm, I don't like it.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • I like this one. The image TARDIS works well with the text. As for capitalisation, I think it works fine with everything "not-capitalised" like this. The font for 'data core' is much better.

      Quick comment on the image - you probably need to clean up the windows and lamp outlines.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • I have to agree with Cult of Skaro.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • Cult Of Skaro wrote: Hmmm...The TARDIS is improved, I don't like the font. Uppercase or not, the fact is it looks lowercase.

      I'd say the lowercase is a nice stylistic choice combined with 'data core', and also quite nicely resolves the discussion we had earlier about Tardis vs TARDIS. In this lowercase form, it can be interpreted both ways.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • That's a little better. I like the phont for "Data Core", but again the "TARDIS" phont is to be to be desired. I like the first font for the word "TARDIS" much better,

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • Try on this one for size:

      TardisDataCore3
        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • Readability wise, I don't think the fade/gradient/lens-flare works well.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • Agreed, but I still wanna have some dynamism there. Let's give this variant a stroll:

      TardisDataCore4
        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • I think that works better. TARDIS is certainly more readable, and the contrasting colours of the text works well.

      Again, just a minor note in case you missed it above, I think the TARDIS windows need redrawing - just to straighten them out.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • Well, the whole TARDIS graphic is deliberately skewed off square. Naturally, the windows then move with that skew. Though I really wonder whether you can tell any of that from the normal, 195px width.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • Sorry, I think you misunderstood my point. The window silhouette have very rough edges - not straight (or curved) like the rest of the edges on the graphic. It's not terribly noticeable at wordmark size, but if you plan to use a larger version on the mainpage or any welcome message, you'll probably want to clean it up.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • No, I understood you. That's deliberate. Haven't really decided whether this exact logo will be used at a larger size. The TARDIS device would almost certainly have to be cleaned up if used outside the wordmark itself.

      Here's probably the final variant of this series (though maybe not the last idea ever on this logo). The o in core was a little unsatisfactory as a dark colour, so I made it white:

      TardisDataCore5

      I lied. Just wanted to hide a bit of the "o" device:

      TardisDataCore6
        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • I like the first in the post above... Although I would put the + in the o of "Core" on the outside of the letter.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • The "+" is not a separate element. That o is in a different font which has the cross as an integrated feature.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • Okay, seriously, this is the last one in this series. Changed the base blue to the BBC official colour for the TARDIS.

      TardisDataCore7

      The observant will already have noted that this new logo will require us to change the colours site wide. Thanks, BBC, for telling us after 50 years exactly what colour of blue the TARDIS is.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • I definitely like it. Out of interest - is there any purpose to the 'crosshair', apart from stylistic choice?

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • Well, I could give you some genuine reasons. It balances the TARDIS graphic, and does so with a free font :) I think it also implies searching, looking for something, sights on a microscope.

      But, to be honest with you, I'm just so happy to finally have a nice, rounded letter in the logo, I kinda had to emphasise it.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • Okay, guys, we've had 48 hours of debate on the name "Tardis Data Core". No one seems unhappy with it as yet. I'm gonna make a few personal appeals for earlier respondents to return to the thread, but seeing as the name has quickly gained traction, debate will close in 24 hours. There's gonna be an awful lot of work involved in making this transition, so the sooner it can be started, the better.

      Quibbles with the logo itself or the colours or the capitalisation will be taken up in another thread once this one is closed.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • Pfff ... well ... I think I might still prefer TIF ... but that might just be because it's what I've always known it as ... and to be fair, TARDIS Data Core is growing on me, and if I did decide to continue to oppose it in favour of TARDIS Index Files, I'm probably going to be the only one. And, as I just said, TARDIS Date Core is growing on me. I do have issues with the logo and the capitalisation (you might've noticed I have capitalised 'TARDIS' in all mentions in my reply), but as Czechout said, that will be taken up in another thread.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • Love the last one.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • I think TARDIS data core is a great name, and the logo looks really good.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • TARDIS Data Core. It's growing on me. It's nice to have something shorter than information system, which comparatively takes forever to type. And since index file must go, this is a good alternative. PS, I would suggest giving more than 24 hours warning for the end of a discussion as some people don't edit every day.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • Logo wise:

      The fattness of the font used for the TARDIS portion means that the "A" and "R" actually look quite similar.

      As the "t" of data core is covering a portion of the "A" it makes it even harder to actually tell what the word says.

      If you know what it's meant to say it's alright, but I try to look at these things and imagine not knowing what it's meant to say.

      So to me, it could say "trrdis" or "taadis".

      The "date core" portion is fine if a bit 90s gaming magazine retro.

      Name wise:

      I have no issue with the name, only the capitalisation of TARDIS, which can be left to another discussion, as long as it is understood that moving forward with the name/logo is not approval to change the capitalisation on the MediaWiki pagetitle or elsewhere on the wiki.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • Hearing no objection, this thread is now closed in favour of changing the name to Tardis Data Core.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
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